Hello canlar..

I want to discuss an important subject with you. This subject is the main key to future Alevism.

The Alevis of today seem to be going towards an "Alevi culture/philosophy" instead of an Alevi belief.

In this new view upon Alevism, traditional religious subjects and sources are rejected, and scientific explanations are used instead. Well, if the religious sources of Alevism are rejected, then Alevism is a lie?

Can you be believing in the Buyruk and Haci Bektas and believe in scientific Alevism in the same time?

Have Alevi people been believing in a lie for hundreds of years? Or is there another explanation to what's going on today?

I will give my own explanation after I've seen a couple of ideas..

hhhhhhmmmmmm cok ingiiiiiiiilizce bilinmis yavvvvvvvvvv,,,,, yoksa ayrintimi yaptin fotokopie bak sen vayy vay vay ingilizce bilenler varmisiiii tebrikler sana

hello alevikürt,i wanna add something not special but adequate for the readers to this context..well,you are asking that alevism is a lie,bilef or a independent philosophie..as far as i know,despite the fact that alevism is a different kind of shia denomination which has been growing up (still) in turkey's barren territorries(little poetry:) it originates from the very beginning of the spreading time of islam..i myself can never admit that alevism is apart from the islam.first of all,telling such a silly thing is a betrayal aganist the history..
and the another important section of my explanation is the refuting the idea of (or even the word) scientific alevism..how can we talk about some scientific things when we believe a religion or a subtitle(belief,denomination..) of a religion..it is your own belief,be careful not a fact..can you please explain scientifically the creation of the galaxy? big bang? ok,well,how did that big bang was formed?from a very different kind of source that you 'believe'...
personally,i adopt the every cultural terms of alevism but not all the religious ones..e.g ;i dont believe whether there is need to lean towards the 'dede' during the 'cem'..but i can join every type of cultural activities,singing türkü,turning semah...:)
on the other hand,we have to draw a line between the bektaşi and alevi..they are complicating and very similar to each other but there is difference:if you say that bektaşilik is a philisophie in itself,its ok..but alevism,as i mentioned above,is not...
alevism is a denomination of islam and should stay so..i have very great worries about the 'real faith' among the alevi citizens in turkey..UNFORTUNETELY AND LOGİCALLY,most atheist people used to be alevi--or they said to be alevi-- once upon a time..
anyway,my friend,thank you very much to give me a chance to say what i think about these controversial issues..
i hope,every alevi will understand intelligently and perform faithfully what they(we) believe...

Mesut EVCİ

Hello canlar..

I want to discuss an important subject with you. This subject is the main key to future Alevism.

The Alevis of today seem to be going towards an "Alevi culture/philosophy" instead of an Alevi belief.

In this new view upon Alevism, traditional religious subjects and sources are rejected, and scientific explanations are used instead. Well, if the religious sources of Alevism are rejected, then Alevism is a lie?

Can you be believing in the Buyruk and Haci Bektas and believe in scientific Alevism in the same time?

Have Alevi people been believing in a lie for hundreds of years? Or is there another explanation to what's going on today?

I will give my own explanation after I've seen a couple of ideas..

First of all,I must say that this is a very nice subject and well worth to discuss about.

You said that nowadays Alevis think that it is a philosophy but I must add that Alevism is already not only a belief,on the contrary;

Alevism is also a culture
Alevism is also a philosophy
Alevism is also a belief.

It is true that Alevis are modern and leftist people.They have their own philosophy but the reason of this can be so clealry understood.For example;

Alevism is a culture with it's genuine traditions like leftism.
Alevism is a philosophy with the thoughts of ''Eline beline diline sahip ol.''and ''Mazluma yardımcı ol.Zalime düşman kesil.''

Alevism is also a belief with 12 Imams or prayers which take place by all together.That is what we call ''ayin-i cem''.Alevism is neither outside of Islam and nor small that fit into Islam...Best regards!

The Alevis of today seem to be going towards an "Alevi culture/philosophy" instead of an Alevi belief.


I'm not agree with this. My opinion is that more towards modern pantheism and never philosophy only now for people who don't knows anything about alevism.

pardon internatonal yazisma adressine girmisim acamilik iste alevimen yoksa kirmizi karti ondan mi yazdin

pardon internatonal yazisma adressine girmisim acamilik iste alevimen yoksa kirmizi karti ondan mi yazdin

Dear ernic45

I am sorry but I must declare that this sect is only English sect and probably you have taken a red card because of that you have written in Turkish
in this sect.It can be so clearly understood that no one is allowed to write in Turkish.So,you have made a very amateur mistake.
Best regars!

baktim kirmizi karti ordan almisim neyse hepinizden özür acemilik oldumu öyle olur

First of all I am proud to be an alevi.
The reason I am saying that is because alevism is a universal belief for me. I believe in science and technology and that they play a part in the elements of alevism. There are different aspects of alevism that explain the correlation of the religion with science. Plus I believe that alevism is inside Islam, but don't get me wrong, there are different philosophies within it. It is more than a belief it is a way of life. Even though our belief in our chosen religion is not tangible...with faith we believe in its truth, way, and light. I see peace, humanity, brotherhood. modernization, and technology as being aspects of the true alevism as a whole.

Surely, Alevism is not a lie, it is a reality of the Anotolian life. Everyone approached the topic subjectively. I think the primary philosophy of Alevism is Humanism. However each of the alevi cannot behave in this manner. In alevism the humanbeing is at the valuable place. Most of us want to explain the alevism acc. to our ideological believs. In my opinion this kind of approach is harmfull for alevism. Should be objective, moderate and unprejudiced.

Not to use the Quran and hadeeths in mainstream orthodox Sunni Islam is like not using the Buyruk, poetry and other works in Alevism.

If we look at the west, no priests in the Christian churches says that "well.. Christianity is a mix of different religions".. But where do we see this way of religion viewing? We see it in science.

Why should we then be preaching about Zoroastrianism, Shamanism etc. in our Cems? How many Imams have you seen saying that Islam is different religions' influences on the prophet Muhammad? If Islam is different religions' influence on Muhammad, this makes Islam a lie. Because according to Islam (when I say Islam, I talk about mainstream orthodox Islam) this is not Islam.

Well, according to Alevism. Alevism is a secret belief, passed on from the 12 imams to the Horasan province, and from then had been spreading to Anatolia. But, to claim that Alevism is a mixture of other cultures, Alevism's own view would be a lie! And second, Alevism would be no more than a culture, since it has been shaped by cultures.

Again, according to Alevism, it sees itself as the path of Muhammad and Ali. So either Alevism is a lie, or it is true. Some defend the view that Alevism a lie, without knowing it. But let us see of the other view; if it is true.

If Alevism is true, we have to see if the Alevi religious sources have possibility of being true.

Can Alevism be a secret, passed on from the 12 imams to the Pirs of Khorasan?

In History I see some very important issues: Alevism has always been an oral tradition. So if Alevism really is right, we should not be expecting to find (m)any written sources, and we don't..
Then let us look at the sources we have.. The sources we have on Imam Ali, Hutbet ul-Beyan for instance, shows a Ali that 100% fits with Alevism. And the same can be said about the Sheikh Safi Buyruk and the other great written sources of Alevism. What is striking, is that if Alevism would be a lie, then our sources would be deriving from the same lying source? But we see that the writer's of the sources are independent from each other and written in different times.

And we also know that there are many other beliefs that are very close to Alevism.. And all of these beliefs have had greater populations in the history.. An example is the Agha Khani Ismailis.. Please read:
http://www.mostmerciful.com/dua-one.htm

The Buyruk is not an infallible book.. We do not have the original unfortunately.. But as almost everything in the world, it has a certain percentage of truth.. E.g, maybe we do not know who the Holy 40 was, and on which date it was held, but we certainly know that the Cem of the Forties has happened.

The next important fact is: The hadeeths now used by the Shia and especially Sunni, is the result of a great classification of hadeeths. Remember that hadeeths are written down very late compared to the life of Muhammed and Ali. And the hadeeths of today are all chosen "reliable" by Sunni and later Shia ulema(!). http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/historyandhadeeth/azzamcomparison.html

Hadeeths are therefore far from reliable sources to use, which is also why Alevism has almost not been using it.

Also the fact that if we go back in time, step by step, we see a connection that ends with the 12 imams (Alevism -> Bektashism/Kizilbashism/Safaviyya -> Hurufism -> Kalenderism, Hayderism aso. -> Wafaism -> 12 imams)

In history we definately see that mainstream Islam is not what it used to be. I still think Alevism is true..

If I use science to explain my religion, do I then have a religion? I think no.. As mevci says, religion is a privat issue, and is a case of believing or not. If one uses science to understand Alevism, his/her religion would be Science, since Science obiously is the ultimate truth for this person, and not the religion!

So I definately think, that science always should be allowed to investigate religions.. But has nothing to do in our cems and our private prayers..

hhhhhhmmmmmm cok ingiiiiiiiilizce bilinmis yavvvvvvvvvv,,,,, yoksa ayrintimi yaptin fotokopie bak sen vayy vay vay ingilizce bilenler varmisiiii tebrikler sana

Evet, çünkü burda Ingilizce yazilan bölüm.

Hi

alvism isnt´t a lie...the alevis read the Quran (for example) in a different manner than many muslims...we enterpret Quran in an esoteric , allegoric and symbolic manner
The traditions of Ali Nahjul Balagha (doctrines of the Imans)BUYRUKS texts are special for alevis
Alevis dont´t believe in a god in an invidualized form and as a universal force...
Humanism is our ideology

bye