There are now 25 million Aids cases in Africa. More than 8 million African children have become ‘Aids orphans’.

Africa accounts for barely 1% of global GDP and only 2% of world trade.

If Africa was populated by starving blue eyed blondes the West would rush to help.

Debt relief is not the solution to Africa's problems.


What can be done to alleviate poverty in Africa? Is the international community doing enough to help the continent?


I would appreciate your comments.


Shaman

for the developed world africa provides the cheap work force. by keeping the african countries in poverty they are able to maximise their profits.

i cant prove my point statistically but african countries despite their low economy spend a large amount of money on guns hence they have alot of violence. this again support the gun industrys of the developed world. for example i once hear on a documentary that the famine in sudan was due to war between the black and the arap sudanise tribes, which only started to get violent after israeli gun companies (the uzi company) signed a contract with the sudanise goverment permitting them to trade guns in sudan.

so my point is the developed worlds are not helping the africans because they are racist but because it benefits them to have africa as a 3rd world.

another example of how developed counties benefit from africa.........
some countries according to some international law have a limited amount of pollution they are allowed to produce. america is one of these countries...
but because america has alot of industry their pollution levels exceed the limit so as a sollution they buy off some african countries their rights to pollute. in other words america pays some countries to stop polluting so that america can pollute instead of them.. the countries that sell their pollution rights are countries that have no industry (no factors etc) and therefore have a low economy which the developed countries can benefit from.

these are just a couple of examples there are many reasons for why africa is the way it is.

the only way poverty can be wiped out from the face of the earth is if people get educated on basic hygeine and if the massive amounts of debts owed is dropped, without these and the support of many people the world cannot advance from the stage in which nearly 3/4 of the earth is living in poverty and absolute poverty. This could of been achieved in the G8 meeting but it was turned down because of the selfishness of the "Western Societey" this shows us how much they care about the lives of the children who are born with HIV and probably wont live to their teenage lives.

Shaman, your points made about Africa are 100% realistic and brave for you to bring up. There are many things in life that we dismiss and one is the thought of others when we are sitting at home so comfortable!

Just think how rediculous it is that you have a contenent that is starving and in poverty yet if we were to put Bill Gates and Warren Buffet's accounts together, the hell with it, with the right kind of technology we can even fix global warming and Africa's poverty problem! However, you and i both know that Hygiene and purchasing weapons have nothing to do with the growing number of Aids and other diseases in Africa, less people means less workers and less workers means less productivity which means less money!

It's also about putting right what the American's have done wrong in the past- if the American's wanted to save Africa they would- but it seems they have other plans. Maybe they might take over the natives as they did the 'native americans' whom they like to call 'Red Indians', and put up a flag with pride.

Everything has a politicial and economical reason behind it, these uncontrollable rates of Aids that increase by 12% every year is not a 'natural disaster', it's something that has been going on for years and it spreads by poor victims getting raped and passing the faulty gene onto the child etc... these are not natural, if anything these are issues which, if the government wanted, could deal with at a click of a finger- but obviously Africans do not come first on the agenda, they have set their eyes a their new prey- Iraq and central Asia!

There is a solution for everything apart from death, if your not knocking on deaths door than your living a contemporary life, but your life should be in your hands- not the governments or any other authority! Sartre (French Philosopher) states 'Man is Freedom'! we were born FREE! yet we have allowed ourselves to get to stage where we need to be dictated and told when to sit down and when to stand up! you get a few brave souls here and there who 'die' again not in natural ways because they are murdered for speaking the truth- but us sitting at home comfortably is a criminal inactment also- we are committing murder too because we are not helping people who need our help the most- NOT THE COCA COLA COMPANY or MALBORO COMPANY...i would rather put money in a jar each time i wanted to buy a coca cola bottle and save up and send it off to charity!

I'd like to hear everybodies views on the matter!

Africa must be excluded from the international free trade of agricultural products. That's a momentary solution; but will save the millions of people's lives for a period.

Charity organisations is a matter of western conscience to relieve the burden over them.

The West can economically contribute but it can not solve Africa's problems. No-one can solve these problems but the Africans themselves.

1) They must overthrow their puppet leaders and take care of their own business. Africa is rich in natural resources. There is no reason for the poverty and low standard of living

2) They must reject violence and see each other simply as people, as fellow africans, there is no need for division between different ethinic groups

3) Finally, they must limit the number of children born to impoverished families. It is appalling to see mothers, surrounded by starving children. Why give birth to ten children, bury eight, and continue such a pattern? Family planning is a critical factor in eliminating poverty!

Money itself will not solve these problems. Honest, responsible leadership and personal accountability will!

Well Shaman, you do have a point....but how can African's restore themselves IF ONE AFRICAN IS DYING EVERY SECOND!! it's easier said then done.

And also by you saying.. i quote 'overthrow their puppet leaders', your only encouraging more violence!! how else are they going to 'overthrow' an authority figure without killing them?

Family planning is crticial you are right, but lets not forget Aftica isn't a Europene country, they don't know what protection is, and i sure don't see people rushing to teach them either!!

Before Africa can start anew, it must be given the required elements needed for survival, such as medication and what have you, then Africa will need to harvest growth of food....they will need to start working systematically, something which they are unable to do due to disagreements over land....and the rest will follow, children will need better education, father's will need jobs, mother's will need birth control pills and Africa will start the production of an enterprise!

In order for this to happen in accordance with the rate of Afirca's development...it will take at leats another 80-100 years, i won't even be here to see it! All this charity work has done only so much....it is very difficult to see a better Africa any time soon.....what happened to G8? a few concerts here and there....50% commission of any income....sLAP BANG we have made a few white people richer!

What do you think SHAMAN! :) (other's are welcome!)

I've noticed that the issue of poverty in Africa has become a real concern for everyone, no please, do not rush to make any comments, 1 or 2 is enough...:uhhm:

I've noticed that the issue of poverty in Africa has become a real concern for everyone, no please, do not rush to make any comments, 1 or 2 is enough...:uhhm:
what exactly are you saying here???
are you Disappointed in the number of people who wrote under this ??? well i'd like to remind you that not all the member in this forum speak english thus are not able to contribute to this section. the limited number of english speaking members have already thrown in their thoughts so i guess you shouldnt expect any more...

plus its not quantity but quality thats important....

I've noticed that the issue of poverty in Africa has become a real concern for everyone, no please, do not rush to make any comments, 1 or 2 is enough...:uhhm:

Hey Shaman, i do understand what you mean to be honest, because there may be a limited number of people that do speak english...but it seems that people are more interested in writing things for more irrelevant subject areas.... however, this doesnt matter since it is the thought that counts.

I am pleased that you brought this topic up...i feel very passionately about it also...and i do see where your coming from Shaman.

Take care. :)

Hope to discuss matters on this issue further soon.

I would rather say nothing at all than post some empty comment like, "Oh, yes. This is terrible." All I can say, from my expeience with doing charity work for Africa, is that a lot of channels seem to have been blocked to the outside world through civil uprisings and terrorist organizations that are tolerated by the governments in the African continent.

I agree with you when you say Africa must help itself and, of course, this is an ongoing struggle because it directly involves opposing fascist governments.

Not much comment on the "white" issue because most white people I know, including myself, are not racist.. whereas most of the non-whites I know....seem to be incredibly racist. In America we have Black Entertainment Television.... non-white comedians ripping on whites all the time and getting away with it but if the situation were reversed, it would be "segregation" and "racism" so......it's hard for me to have a decisive opinion on all that.

But I agree on your point and that something must be done. Perhaps the best thing to be done is to educate the people of Africa so they can take the initiative in changing their world. There are many who would be more than happy to help them take flight, especially if it implied a lasting solution.

Greater accessibility to the internet would maybe be an appropriate step as this is the greatest means of communication and education the world has ever seen.

Not much comment on the "white" issue because most white people I know, including myself, are not racist.. whereas most of the non-whites I know....seem to be incredibly racist. In America we have Black Entertainment Television.... non-white comedians ripping on whites all the time and getting away with it but if the situation were reversed, it would be "segregation" and "racism" so......it's hard for me to have a decisive opinion on all that.



I don't think that "white" people in Europe aren't racist. They are really hard racist, but it's an subliminal racism, that starts with tolerating the immigrants in Europe, but don't giving them the same possibilities for carrier or the same posibilities for education. And on the other hand there are these heterogenous society structures, which strictly part immigrant and local people all around in Europe, but primary in germanic speaking and surrounding regions. It's easy to see a repulsive attitude of european people against "strangers", and it's much more easier to see their "interest" (ironical) in helping "negro", "sino" and "semitic" people all around the world.

There are now 25 million Aids cases in Africa. More than 8 million African children have become ‘Aids orphans’.


Africa accounts for barely 1% of global GDP and only 2% of world trade.

If Africa was populated by starving blue eyed blondes the West would rush to help.

Debt relief is not the solution to Africa's problems.


What can be done to alleviate poverty in Africa? Is the international community doing enough to help the continent?


I would appreciate your comments.


Shaman






Dear Shaman,

Why such a nickname? I thought you are an Alevi? Did you actually know what shamans do? You know they pray to stones and they cackle like ducks when they pray, and sometimes they make a fire and they jump around like crazy birds (in consideration of their cackles to that).


Back to the topic: Africa.

It's really hard to describe why Africa is the "poor" Africa that we know. If you think of all the topics in media, starting like "aids in africa" or "starwing children in africa" or "poornes everywhere in africa", we all think that Africa is a place of weakness. But that isn't true, Africa is a rich continent, it has enormous resources.

The only problem of the africans is the industrialized world, which chain the african up coming industrialization by doing self-charity work and teaching the african people, that they haven't got to work for their bred, they just have to stay calm to get food.

Industrialized world needs the poor, because capitalism needs the poor to achieve lower prices and to pay less for their own workers, if their worker want a higher living standard, they let them feel how it is without a car, and how life is without a job, without eating and so on.

The only high-tech appliance the world permits africa to use are weapons. Especially from Israel, Britain and US.

So, now we know where the problem in Africa is. And we see that we have the capabilities to change their situation.

We just have to stop sending food, start sending teachers and starting sending industrial appliances for gaining more food from the productive land of Africa.

With Love.

..in Europe...

Never been to Europe but, fortunately, the people I do know from there are extremely open-minded and warm-hearted towards people of all cultures.

I grew up in a neighborhood that was of mixed nationality. We had music of all kinds in the house and were taught that all people were equal. Of course, I grew up in the Northern half of the US. The south has a different history.

I know racism and bigotry exists. I've just experienced much more of it coming from the other side so, whatever opinion I have on the subject, I am only able to gather from my own experience. And, from those experiences, I estimate that it's not a "white" issue ...but, rather, a "people" issue. Racism doesn't have a color. It stems from ignorance and ..this seems to be a universal disease.

Peace.

Dear Shaman,

Why such a nickname? I thought you are an Alevi? Did you actually know what shamans do? You know they pray to stones and they cackle like ducks when they pray, and sometimes they make a fire and they jump around like crazy birds (in consideration of their cackles to that).

The only shamans I ever met prayed to a faceless deity called Wakantanka, which basically translates as "Allah". The only stones involved were the ones carried into the lodge from the fire. When they prayed it was more like listening to Nusrat Fateh than a duck. Water was poured over the stones and the steam filled the room, cleaning our bodies of impurities. They wore feathers as a symbol of the spirit of the birds from which they came. The dance, the same. To capture the passion of the bird spirit in human form ...but yet another expression of creation. A most beautiful one.

No God but God. No matter what name God goes by.

Besides...I have always understood Alevism to have its roots in the ancient shamanic traditions of Anatolia. It predates "Islam" as an established religion.

Never been to Europe but, fortunately, the people I do know from there are extremely open-minded and warm-hearted towards people of all cultures.

I grew up in a neighborhood that was of mixed nationality. We had music of all kinds in the house and were taught that all people were equal. Of course, I grew up in the Northern half of the US. The south has a different history.

I know racism and bigotry exists. I've just experienced much more of it coming from the other side so, whatever opinion I have on the subject, I am only able to gather from my own experience. And, from those experiences, I estimate that it's not a "white" issue ...but, rather, a "people" issue. Racism doesn't have a color. It stems from ignorance and ..this seems to be a universal disease.

Peace.

I don't know the situation in America, but that should be true.

The only shamans I ever met prayed to a faceless deity called Wakantanka, which basically translates as "Allah". The only stones involved were the ones carried into the lodge from the fire. When they prayed it was more like listening to Nusrat Fateh than a duck. Water was poured over the stones and the steam filled the room, cleaning our bodies of impurities. They wore feathers as a symbol of the spirit of the birds from which they came. The dance, the same. To capture the passion of the bird spirit in human form ...but yet another expression of creation. A most beautiful one.

No God but God. No matter what name God goes by.

Besides...I have always understood Alevism to have its roots in the ancient shamanic traditions of Anatolia. It predates "Islam" as an established religion.

Unfortunaly I haven't got a record, but it's really a crazy duck cackling. The meaning of the text I wrote was abstract. I wrote it as a satire, the point with the stones is defined so: they belive that in all mountains are the spirits of an holy ancestor. So they take a stone of each mountain they see.

It might be that there are differnt similarities with shamanism, but Alevism is Islamic, but it has also similarities to kurdish Ezdaism and to Anatolian Levism, there are much more similarties to Buddism and Mancusim, that we haven't found out, BUT the main point of all is the meaning of all doings.

And this is Ali in Alevism.

It is not duck crackling.....Shadowpuppet is actually right, if you were an Alevi you would know that Alevism comes from a shamanistic backround involving fire, sun, light hence why we were once called ISIKS (i.e. Lights). This is just an overview of something very important actually...but this is obviously not the time and place for it.

As we were saying AFRICA....

I personally do believe that there is this issue of race involved in helping a needy country. I've watched many documentaries especially of that produced by the author of 'Stupid white men' ....no offence to anyone. I do think that extreme racism still exist but is concealled in many ways. I know for a fact that people would much rather help their own kind than to go out of their way to help others.

The important thing here is that we need to look past the hole racism issue and really think for the benefit of those young babies for the future....because in the long run we know what 'the end' will be for each and every individual born, death! I hate to think that a child is born only to die again the very next day!

What can be done to help them?

Charity? Already happened..been there done that
Concerts? Again...done and dusted
Fund Rasiers? same old...same old

I dont think enough is being done :(

It is not duck crackling.....Shadowpuppet is actually right, if you were an Alevi you would know that Alevism comes from a shamanistic backround involving fire, sun, light hence why we were once called ISIKS (i.e. Lights). This is just an overview of something very important actually...but this is obviously not the time and place for it.


I'm sorry girly, but this isn't true. Why should someone call the shamans ISIKS, they have nothing to do with light, but the Ezdai and the Zarthosti and the Luvian people living in Anatolia and in the Near East, they had to do with that.

The shamans are a "batil" believe, that means they have no "tassavvuf" (sufism) and no "felsefe" (philosophy), it's a natural bounded religion.

BUT Buddism, Islam and Judaism have a "tassavvuf" (sufism), and also Zarthostian has a "tassavvuf" (mystic sufism), but Ezdaism has none, like Shamanism.

And as we know, does Alevism has "sufism" and a "philosophy".


Alevism is practically out of Ezdaism, Zarthostian and Shamanism.
BUT without the Sufism, that ALI brought, it would be worthless.

It is not duck crackling.....Shadowpuppet is actually right, if you were an Alevi you would know that Alevism comes from a shamanistic backround involving fire, sun, light hence why we were once called ISIKS (i.e. Lights). This is just an overview of something very important actually...but this is obviously not the time and place for it.

i dont agree with this...
our roots are with islam and islam only we pray for Ali, we fast for Ali, we live for Ali we dont worship fire we dont worship light... our ancestors before islam might of have done i have no arguement against that but we do not.

As we were saying AFRICA....

I personally do believe that there is this issue of race involved in helping a needy country. I've watched many documentaries especially of that produced by the author of 'Stupid white men' ....no offence to anyone. I do think that extreme racism still exist but is concealled in many ways. I know for a fact that people would much rather help their own kind than to go out of their way to help others.

your right peolpe are more likely to help those who belong to their ingroup rather than the outgroups. i cant really explain why this is maybe it's got some evolutionary cause i.e. help your own to maximise survival etc etc.. i mean i've seen my parents do it. to charities that collect for 3rd world countries they give practically nothing just a couple of pounds but when people collect for a poor person in turkey say like in cem evi or in kahves than my parents give Substantial amount.. when asked why their reason being "they're our people"...

i actually think that the main reason for why africa is not helped proparly is because of a lack of organisation... if one strong charity was to be formed that organised fund raising champaigns and made sure all that was collected reached all the right places then alot of people would help... i mean i give to charity the most i've ever given was £20 to a pakistani friend who was collecting for her village in pakistan. but every time i gave to any charity i htink to myself what is going to hapen to that money is it really going to reach those who need it or is the charity workers themselves are going to keep it.... we need more live 8's to be organised... its not just africa that needs help there are many other countries that are suffering in silent...

(leyla I took a quote from you but what i wrote was not directed to you only.. dont take things personally)

(leyla I took a quote from you but what i wrote was not directed to you only.. dont take things personally)

I wouldn't ever do that....this is the whole point; to discuss and debate certain issues...if everyone thought the same then this world would be a very boring place :hmmm

Okay so...am I to understand that 'Alewi' (like in Syria and Morroco) and 'Alevi' (like in Turkey) mean basically the same thing? Or at least in some circles?

Quite curious.
~C*

Okay so...am I to understand that 'Alewi' (like in Syria and Morroco) and 'Alevi' (like in Turkey) mean basically the same thing? Or at least in some circles?

Quite curious.
~C*


The teaching is the same, the practices are different.